FlightGear - Création d'avions et autres / Creation of aircraft and other

Vous désirez aider à améliorer les avions de Hangar de Helijah, c'est ici que cela se passe / You would like to help improving aircraft from Helijah's hangar, this is where it happens

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#1 2015-02-28 08:20:08

D-ECHO
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EchoAir2015

Hi!
While Im waiting for continouing of the tutorial, I tried a bit of producing an "own" aircraft, the EchoAir2015.
So what do you think of this? Do you think it would fly? happy
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gth80nntfarbz … 1.JPG?dl=0
Very interested in your answers!
Regards
D-ECHO

Dernière modification par D-ECHO (2015-02-28 08:20:22)

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#2 2015-02-28 12:35:29

Didier1963
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Re : EchoAir2015

Hello there,

I think that the question is for Helijah (AKA M88, AKA Great Master, AKA Emmanuel), do not gorgot to mention to whom the question is adressed.

My poor newbee opignion :

YESS, she can fly :

I beleave she can fly, I beleave she can touch the sky, I think about it every night and day spread my wings and fly away.
I believe she can soar, I see her running through that open door.
I believe she can fly !!

Ok, it was one of my joke, I hope you recognise the song from R. Kelly little bit modified for the ocasion.

More seriously,
Within FG, every thing can fly as much as you put a basic FDM.
Even a sledge hammer !!

Now if we speak about creation a plane in view to build somethink real, yes you can modelise the volume with YASim (for exemple) and test it to see how it beave.
But Emmanuel will tell you more on that and much accurate that what I can say.

Speaking about making planes, I just want to repeat M. (with a big M) Marcel Bloch :

"Si un avion est beau, il vole bien", "If a plane have nice looking, it fly well".

PS : You might not know, but Marcel Bloch was the former name of Marcel Dassault.


Pourquoi cet avatar : il a réussi à les arrêter LUI au moins.......
Amicalement, Didier, Poitiers 86; LFBI alt 129m, 46°35'22.9"N 0°18'32.7"E
"Ils ne savaient pas que c'était impossible, alors ils l'on fait" Marc Twain

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#3 2015-03-14 21:52:27

D-ECHO
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Re : EchoAir2015

Hi all!
Started with moddelling the aircraft, now need help faq
How to cut the windows in the aircraft? (https://www.dropbox.com/s/j995dt0c9njq8 … 9.JPG?dl=0)
So that it is like in this picture: https://www.dropbox.com/s/gth80nntfarbz … 1.JPG?dl=0
Thanks in Advance
D-ECHO smile

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#4 2015-03-14 22:31:49

Didier1963
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Re : EchoAir2015

Hi D-Echo,

I try to put some way to do it in the usual tuto, sa watch it sometime tommorow............

Voilà Monsieur, it's done.............
Part VIII MAKING HOLES FOR  DOORS AND WINDOWS

Dernière modification par Didier1963 (2015-03-15 00:07:21)


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Amicalement, Didier, Poitiers 86; LFBI alt 129m, 46°35'22.9"N 0°18'32.7"E
"Ils ne savaient pas que c'était impossible, alors ils l'on fait" Marc Twain

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#5 2015-04-02 13:30:12

Didier1963
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Re : EchoAir2015

Hello guys,

some news about D-ECHO development project.

I put here some mail exchanges we had these days :

Am 01.04.2015 um 23:14 schrieb didier1963@laposte.net:
> Hi there, here are your files Enjoy.......

I sent to D-Echo a test of modeling his plane witch his drawing.

D-Echo, jeu., 02 avr. 2015 10:11 
Hi!
Progress:
Attach
One question: Whats this cross behind the body?
Another request: Could you maybe send me the MFD and PFD of the
Eclipse 550 (have you already completed it?) so that I can put it into
the aircraft?
Regards

fgfs-s10.jpg

didier1963, jeu., 02 avr. 2015 12:28 
Hy,
What is PGP ? A graphic format, a compression format?
About the glass cockpit :
There job for you about this one as
You will do it !!!

I'm right now writting a tutorial for you on how to use an other plane folder to test your "Chef d'oeuvre" (masterpeace).
Keep an yey on the forum, I think that be this evening it shall be ready, using the Akoya folder as sample.
Then, as soon as we are done with the external modeling, I'll do a tuto with you like we do for the body modeling, for the panel and specially for the PFD-MFD.
For tha other backup instrument that should be on your panel, there is already tutorials.
What is the "cross" on the boom on the back of the cockpit?
Try to think little bit, it is on my techn ical specs.............. (the engine just beside is suppose to do what??????)
Enjoy.............
D-Echo, jeu., 02 avr. 2015 12:52 
PGP is a program to secure email traffic, see
https://addons.mozilla.org/de/thunderbird/addon/enigmail/?src=search
Okay, nice, looking forward to the tuto.
Sorry, no idea what you mean, isnt the propeller at the front?
And last but not least: Thanks for the new EchoAir Model. just one
question: Is it possible to mirror one object (the door) to the other
side, so it isnt one object but two ones (to have seperate doors for
animation)?

I had sent D-Echo a sample of my blend file to show him.
d-echo12.png

D-Echo, jeu., 02 avr. 2015 12:56 
Thanks,
but to the back of the aircraft: Isnt it normally turned around like thi
s:
(attach1)
didier1963, jeu., 02 avr. 2015 13:12 
Hi,
That was a proposal I made for you,
as I mentionned on the specs, I tryed to make "concept plane".
The propeller is on the back for two reasons :
- The pilot wont be bother by the propeller in his field of view,
- The volume in the plane nose is too small to put an engine (even a Rotax 912, used in lots of LSA)
The stabs are "upside-down" because the concept is to be able to transport the plane on a trailer.
You store it in your garage, and you go to the nearest aerodrom to fly it.
So with this configuration, you just dismantle the horizontal stab and the wings, and the trailer don't need to be too high.
On the French motorway, if the trailer is higher than 2m, you pay additional fee.
A+
D-Echo, jeu., 02 avr. 2015 13:16 
Wow!
Good idea: for the motor: I though there would be a Rotax 912 behind the
seats and then a pole to the front (as in the Stemme Sky Sportster S6),
but I think your idea is better!
The stabs idea also seems great!
Another point: Is it normal that you dont see the backwall and the
bottom in fg?
Regards
didier1963, jeu., 02 avr. 2015 13:35
Yes, it is normal, as I told you, I made it quickly so I need to extend little bit the backwall.
The Rotax 912 ULS that I have modeled before shall fit inside this place.
I proposed to put it ther to be as close as possible to the propeller, then the luggages can be put just at the back of the rear seats.
By the way, I thing it will be better to have three seats on the back, if it is not too heavy for the Rotax.
D-Echo, jeu., 02 avr. 2015 13:45 
Three seats... Okay...
Like this? (attach)
Drawinfg with 2 seats on front and one seat on left back, luggages on right back, engine behind.
Here the first fg snapshots: attach
Regards

fgfs-s10.png

D-Echo, jeu., 02 avr. 2015 13:51
Ohh... I think Ive understood you wrong: Not three seats at all, but
five seats at all
D-Echo, jeu., 02 avr. 2015 14:01
So I would put the motor to the position marked with text (attach) and
the pole marked red.

ea201510.png

didier1963, jeu., 02 avr. 2015 14:18 
No,
2 seats in the front
3 seats in the back
For the engine position, let me check, I was thinking to put it inside the black casing on the top so we can put phonic insulation between the passenger compartment and the engine compartment.
Ooooops, forgot to send you the texture file to go with my last Blender file, so here irt is...........
Suggestion : Why don't you make the part in the middle between the seats little bit larger like in the Pteria, so we can have some stuff like throttle, parking brake, battery switch, fuel tap, fitted on it?
D-Echo, jeu., 02 avr. 2015 14:29
Okay, good idea
I had already created own textures ;), but thanks
Just done! (about the middle console between seats)

Dernière modification par Didier1963 (2015-04-02 13:35:02)


Pourquoi cet avatar : il a réussi à les arrêter LUI au moins.......
Amicalement, Didier, Poitiers 86; LFBI alt 129m, 46°35'22.9"N 0°18'32.7"E
"Ils ne savaient pas que c'était impossible, alors ils l'on fait" Marc Twain

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#6 2015-04-02 13:49:18

Didier1963
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Re : EchoAir2015

D-Echo,

As I told you, my modeling was made quickly so I made only one side of the doors.
I'll do the other side later. You can see that the doors frame need little bit reduction so we wont see them from outside like in the screen shot just before.

The propeller is spinning around the plane's tail boom, powered by a shaft coming from the Rotax 912 ULS reducer. I'll make you something in Blender to show you the mechanical part at the propeller level.
The boom must be large enough to let going through all the electrical cables, as well as the linkage for the rudder and the ailerons.

Dernière modification par Didier1963 (2015-04-02 13:50:03)


Pourquoi cet avatar : il a réussi à les arrêter LUI au moins.......
Amicalement, Didier, Poitiers 86; LFBI alt 129m, 46°35'22.9"N 0°18'32.7"E
"Ils ne savaient pas que c'était impossible, alors ils l'on fait" Marc Twain

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#7 2015-04-02 15:34:02

D-ECHO
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Re : EchoAir2015

I just noticed a big problem with the propeller. The bar to the stabilizers wouldn't have connection to the bar that goes to the main aircraft, because theres the (rotating!) propeller in between.
This can't work. Seems like we have to change to front propeller or put the prop under the bar to the stabilizers

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#8 2015-04-02 15:44:33

Didier1963
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Re : EchoAir2015

Just be patient.........

It is working.............

Wait for the 3D modeling that I'll made so you'll understand.

Just immagine a car rear wheel.
The brake drum is the propeller center part
The wheel axle is the boom, empty in its center
Put some teeth inside the drum (where the brake shoose is in contact)
Take a shaft with the same teeth, linked to the engine

Et voilà..............


Pourquoi cet avatar : il a réussi à les arrêter LUI au moins.......
Amicalement, Didier, Poitiers 86; LFBI alt 129m, 46°35'22.9"N 0°18'32.7"E
"Ils ne savaient pas que c'était impossible, alors ils l'on fait" Marc Twain

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#9 2015-04-02 15:59:32

D-ECHO
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Re : EchoAir2015

Okay, this would  be one possibilty to fix the problem:
possibility1.png?dl=1
Or we do it as at the beginning: Propeller at the front

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#10 2015-04-02 16:23:20

D-ECHO
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Re : EchoAir2015

Okay, I havent understood what you mean, but if you say it...

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#11 2015-04-02 16:25:50

Didier1963
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Re : EchoAir2015

We cannot see very well what it is.
Can you change you view angle.

It look like a shaft going out of the fuselage, without any thing to hold it at its end !!!!
Mechanically impossible !!


Pourquoi cet avatar : il a réussi à les arrêter LUI au moins.......
Amicalement, Didier, Poitiers 86; LFBI alt 129m, 46°35'22.9"N 0°18'32.7"E
"Ils ne savaient pas que c'était impossible, alors ils l'on fait" Marc Twain

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#12 2015-04-02 16:28:43

D-ECHO
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Re : EchoAir2015

Didier, do you mean that the rotating part is outside and the boom inside it?

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#13 2015-04-02 16:30:21

D-ECHO
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Re : EchoAir2015

Another problem of the variant I posted is the air, the rotor wouldn't get enough air because its behind the body

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#14 2015-04-02 16:38:46

Didier1963
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Re : EchoAir2015

What I call the boom is the green part of the fuselage going from the cabin to the tail.
The "rotating" part is the shaft.

Just be patient, instead of eplaining with lots of words, I will show you in 3D.

Right now I'm on the Rotax, so try to make what I suggested you on my last e-mail so it will give me time to make it :

For the time being,
- Try to model your own body base on what I sent you (I'll explain you later how the gearing system of the propeller is working, as the boom frame is passing through),
- Try to model your own gears (I suppose that these ones where taken from an other plane),
- If you are ready by the time I'm back (I have to do some stuff outside, and be back for dinner), try to models the throttle, the parking brake handle, the gear handle (with a gear shape if possible like in real planes),
- then, you can begin to see how to cut the flaps, aileron, rudder and so on
- you can also think about the yoke (try to be inventive for its form, like joystick in the middle console as an example).

A+


Pourquoi cet avatar : il a réussi à les arrêter LUI au moins.......
Amicalement, Didier, Poitiers 86; LFBI alt 129m, 46°35'22.9"N 0°18'32.7"E
"Ils ne savaient pas que c'était impossible, alors ils l'on fait" Marc Twain

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#15 2015-04-02 16:50:30

D-ECHO
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Re : EchoAir2015

Didier1963 a écrit :
For the time being,
- Try to model your own body base on what I sent you (I'll explain you later how the gearing system of the propeller is working, as the boom frame is passing through),
- Try to model your own gears (I suppose that these ones where taken from an other plane),
- If you are ready by the time I'm back (I have to do some stuff outside, and be back for dinner), try to models the throttle, the parking brake handle, the gear handle (with a gear shape if possible like in real planes),
- then, you can begin to see how to cut the flaps, aileron, rudder and so on
- you can also think about the yoke (try to be inventive for its form, like joystick in the middle console as an example).

I modelled my own body, then I have created the punch object, but the bolean tool made that:
Screenshot%20-%2002.04.2015%20-%2015%3A09%3A38.png?dl=1
It seams like it didnt work...
Gears modelled done:
gear.png?dl=1
(Left one is from Tecnam P2010, right one is my own)
Throttle: throttle.png?dl=1
Parking Brake Handle: (more innovative model coming): parkbrake.png?dl=1
Gear handle: coming (you mean the thing for retractable gear, right?, I  just dont understand for what, dont think this aircraft will got retractable gear...)
Flaps, Aileron,... Same as with the windows: Bolean tool seems to make wrong things...
Yoke: Small joystick integrated in seat: yoke.png?dl=1

Dernière modification par D-ECHO (2015-04-02 17:56:27)

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#16 2015-04-02 22:15:13

Didier1963
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Re : EchoAir2015

Here it is,

ready to test if it fit inside the engine compartment :
rotax910.jpg

So tomorrow, carburetor, reducer, and if possible middle of the engine............

Dernière modification par Didier1963 (2015-04-02 22:15:40)


Pourquoi cet avatar : il a réussi à les arrêter LUI au moins.......
Amicalement, Didier, Poitiers 86; LFBI alt 129m, 46°35'22.9"N 0°18'32.7"E
"Ils ne savaient pas que c'était impossible, alors ils l'on fait" Marc Twain

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#17 2015-04-02 23:30:31

Didier1963
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Re : EchoAir2015

Lokks ok to put a Rotax where I told you :
engine10.jpg

Just need to get the firewall little bit more forward because of the exhaust :
engine11.jpg

I have to see with the reducer witch is higher............


Pourquoi cet avatar : il a réussi à les arrêter LUI au moins.......
Amicalement, Didier, Poitiers 86; LFBI alt 129m, 46°35'22.9"N 0°18'32.7"E
"Ils ne savaient pas que c'était impossible, alors ils l'on fait" Marc Twain

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#18 2015-04-03 21:50:43

Didier1963
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Re : EchoAir2015

The work of the day :
rotax-10.jpg

Almost back to the status how it was before loose it in the PC crash 2 years ago.

Just need 4 carburetors (all same so one to make and copy 3 times)
Color aluminum water pipe in aluminum color
Put spark plugs and wires.
I wont put too much details, just enough to have a nice looking engine that we can recognize.
This is the way I suggest how engine hood should open to have good access to work on it :
engine10.png
You pull little bit the window up (the hinges are on top), and then you tilt the complete hood up.

I did not yet put frame around the windows like I did for the doors.

Dernière modification par Didier1963 (2015-04-03 21:52:59)


Pourquoi cet avatar : il a réussi à les arrêter LUI au moins.......
Amicalement, Didier, Poitiers 86; LFBI alt 129m, 46°35'22.9"N 0°18'32.7"E
"Ils ne savaient pas que c'était impossible, alors ils l'on fait" Marc Twain

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#19 2015-04-04 03:58:37

Didier1963
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Re : EchoAir2015

Hi D-Echo,

Here are some quick drawing to explain how the propeller is fitted and powered:
propel10.png
The shaft is comming from the Rotax 912 ULS reducer
In green that's the tail boom
In blue the propeller

propel11.png
The shaft going through the boom, with a small bearing to support it, en run the inside of the proppeller hub.
The propeller hub is monted with bearing on the tail boom (I did not draw the bearings).

I did not draw them, but they should be at least two shafts (just in case one got broken, and to distribute the power strenght equally all arround the propeller hub.

I hope It is more clear now.


Pourquoi cet avatar : il a réussi à les arrêter LUI au moins.......
Amicalement, Didier, Poitiers 86; LFBI alt 129m, 46°35'22.9"N 0°18'32.7"E
"Ils ne savaient pas que c'était impossible, alors ils l'on fait" Marc Twain

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#20 2015-04-04 05:56:24

D-ECHO
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Re : EchoAir2015

Wow! I wonder again and again how many thoughts you make about this. I wouldn't get to such a great idea in my life!
Already looking forward to the next model wink

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#21 2015-04-04 19:42:31

Didier1963
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Re : EchoAir2015

Hey man, that's YOUR plane !!

I make only suggestions. It is up to you to use them or not.
No worries, I wont be upset if you don't like what I propose.


Pourquoi cet avatar : il a réussi à les arrêter LUI au moins.......
Amicalement, Didier, Poitiers 86; LFBI alt 129m, 46°35'22.9"N 0°18'32.7"E
"Ils ne savaient pas que c'était impossible, alors ils l'on fait" Marc Twain

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#22 2015-04-05 06:00:47

D-ECHO
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Re : EchoAir2015

Hey,
I REALLY like what you propose. I think its very intelligent what you say, and Ill use it for sure wink

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#23 2015-04-05 11:38:23

Didier1963
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Re : EchoAir2015

Here is the status of the engine :
- Back of the reducer to be completed (I expect picture from a guy who's working actually on it building LSA);
- Back of the crank case to be completed (idem as above);
- Front lower part of the crank case to be completed (idem as above);
- Spark plugs coil to be modeled and then connect  spark plugs wires to it;
- Carburetor to be completed on the fitting to put warming system.

After all these done, I wont put all details as it may be to heavy in FPS.
rotax-11.jpg


Pourquoi cet avatar : il a réussi à les arrêter LUI au moins.......
Amicalement, Didier, Poitiers 86; LFBI alt 129m, 46°35'22.9"N 0°18'32.7"E
"Ils ne savaient pas que c'était impossible, alors ils l'on fait" Marc Twain

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#24 2015-04-05 12:14:07

D-ECHO
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Re : EchoAir2015

Looks incredible!
But I didnt know the company is named Ratox... or is that because of the license?

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#25 2015-04-05 15:44:43

Didier1963
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Re : EchoAir2015

You got it................. just in case, I changed the name, but more for fun than for licence problems  lol


Pourquoi cet avatar : il a réussi à les arrêter LUI au moins.......
Amicalement, Didier, Poitiers 86; LFBI alt 129m, 46°35'22.9"N 0°18'32.7"E
"Ils ne savaient pas que c'était impossible, alors ils l'on fait" Marc Twain

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